Bellerby & Co - The globemakers

March 10, 2019 24 min read

Bellerby & Co - The globemakers

 

 

           

 

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Daniel:
So welcome Peter. Thank you so much for coming, for agreeing, I should say, to talk to me. I really appreciate it. And maybe you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became a globe maker.

Peter:
Thanks for inviting me. So yeah, my name's Peter Bellerby. I set up a company around about ten years ago. But it's such a random story. I didn't really set up a company at all. I had this idea that I wanted to get my dad a good present for his upcoming 80th birthday, and for me, that was a globe. And so I spent six months or longer looking for a decent model that I thought would work, and failed. And so, in a moment of madness or naivety or stupidity, I thought I would make him a globe.

Daniel:
And he-

Peter:
That ... Sorry.

Daniel:
Had you tried anything like that before? Are you a cartographer or a GIS person or a geographer?

Peter:
No. So my background is kind of relatively mixed. I've worked in television, I've worked in hospitality. I've worked in property developing. But no, I've got no ... Well, my geography background would be that I studied up until the age of 18. So I took to a reasonably high level, but not to a massive level. But to construct a globe, you don't really need to know a great deal about geography. It's useful to know countries and capitals because you have issues with software, but beyond that you don't need to know that much. I did have, as a child, I had a lot of experience with making and, my parents would probably interject here, and destroying everything toy I was ever given.

Peter:
And so I kind of ... Construction wasn't something that phased me. And the rest of it was really ... I mean, I certainly hadn't done anything in the realms of production or manufacturing, so for me, I thought it would take about three months to make this globe, and it took close to two years.

Daniel:
It took two years? That's commitment. That's very, very impressive. Did you finally get the globe in the end? Was it a product you were proud of?

Peter:
Yeah. Yeah. He got his globe a few months short of his 83rd birthday, I think, in the end. So he didn't even get the first one. I was so ... I'd obviously spent a ridiculous amount of money at this stage on doing this, and I needed to sell a few to actually be able to afford to give him his one.

Daniel:
Assuming that you've refined the globe making process a little more today, can you give us an idea of what the process looks like from start to finish?

Peter:
Yeah. Well so, we obviously make advancements all the time. We perfect things all the time. We ... I guess I got to a certain level after a couple of years, and then we just refined, and refined, and refined. But the process needs to be broken down. So, when you're making a globe, you're obviously making a sphere and you're then creating the world to go around that sphere. When you finish that, it will then sit either within a base or on top of a base. We perfected this really cool way of displaying a globe where it can sit on roller bearings so it can be spun in multi-direction.

Daniel:
Fantastic. And do you actually make the sphere yourself? Is that something that happens in your factory?

Peter:
So, originally, when I started, I would make everything myself aside from the grass meridians which obviously I had to get cast in a foundry. These days, because of the volume we are at, it's something that we outsource. It's potentially something in the future that we will bring back in house. But it's one of things. As you're building up a company, certain things require that they stay in house, and certain things require that they go out of house. And as you grow ... Obviously, if we were 20 times bigger, everything would be in house. So there are various times when you make decisions on what can be made in house and what can be made out of house. But all our spheres at the moment are made out of house.

Daniel:
I guess it's really important to let the listeners to know that when I say, "factory," it's not a factory where there's a whole bunch of machines stamping out globes. Can you tell us more about the process, then? The actual ... 'Cause they are hand made, aren't they? They're all made by hand?

Peter:
Yeah. I mean the ... I guess we kind of call it a studio. It's a very ... It's a beautiful studio that I'm very lucky to have in North London where we construct the globes. So once you have a sphere, you will then prepare that sphere to enable you to measure correctly so that you can apply the map to the sphere. But the process, I suppose, starts with a customer commissioning a globe. We then will go through different edits because 95% of customers will personalize a globe. So they might add on a small town or village or several. They might add on a few illustrations.

Peter:
Once that's all confirmed, we will then print out the map. We have two huge printers where we do that. Then the process starts of the map going between the globe maker and the painter. So it will go to the globe maker who will cut, with a scalpel, the map out so it makes the perfect shapes which are called gores, which fit on a globe. So they're obviously wide at the equator and thin down towards the poles. These are then initially painted by the painters. To start with, they will paint the oceans, which is ... There's a technical reason behind that which I guess I can go into.

Peter:
Essentially, because the ocean is so large and it's a continuous body, if you were to put the entire map onto a sphere, you would start painting, for instance, in the middle of the Pacific. And then you'd have to, one, because we're using water colors and you can't let them dry quickly, and because we're using a sphere, you would kind of have one painter going from the Pacific down to the South Pacific. One swinging 'round Australia, one swinging 'round Cape Horn. Another one going up into the North Pacific going into the Arctic Ocean down in to the arctic. It would be a nightmare.

Peter:
So we paint the oceans first when the strips of map, be it 12, 24, or 48, are on a flat surface. Then, once the painter has done that, the globe maker will then apply those gores to the sphere. This is the really difficult thing to work out. So when we get new trainees, it takes a minimum of six months for them to learn how to apply 12 bits of paper to a 23 centimeter sphere. And that's so much dedication. I'm so lucky I have an amazing team.

Peter:
But can you imagine doing something every single day and failing at it for six months, and in the last two months you're kind of almost there, but you're just not there? And you don't know what is wrong, you don't know what to do to make it work. And that's the process I went through over the two years of working it out to begin with. That's something that, it just is a matter of time. But then for some people, it's not even a matter of time. For some people, it's unachievable. You really need to have amazing motor skills to do that part.

Peter:
Once that has been done, so that's applying the pieces of the map to the sphere, it then goes back to the painting department. And there are like ten people who paint. In fact it's the biggest team that we have because it's the process that now takes the longest. On a Churchill globe, for instance, the large 50 inch globe, it can take four weeks to paint in the details. So we will paint around the coastline, and you just have to do it in little once-inch sections because it's the way watercolors work and the fact that you're painting with watercolors on a spherical canvas means that you just have to do small sections at a time. So that's the long process.

Peter:
Once that's all been done, we then will go through various stages of drying and adding varnishes to protect it before it then marries up with its base, which is being made by the woodwork team simultaneously.

Daniel:
Okay. Just to clarify, when you say paint, my understanding was that you'd made the map. You'd print it off, you'd like it on the table, and then you'd paint it. But when you print the map, there's no colors on it? Or is the painting just to highlight certain sections of it?

Peter:
So we are making what is defined as a printed globe. So we print all the coastlines, all the cartography, all the wording. That's all printed. But it's pretty much in black and white. We use blues and we use dark browns and purples and things, but on the whole, that's an outline. So once it goes through the painting process, that's when we add the color. So all the color you see on the globes once you're five feet away is applied by hand.

Daniel:
That is incredible. I've seen a few photos of the work that you do, and that must be ... Well it obviously is quite an undertaking to do that.

Peter:
Yeah. And it's a really skilled job. The team I have are amazing, and they obviously learn. When they first come in they will start painting a small globe, and they obviously go up to the larger and larger globes. But it's quite a stressful thing to do. Or not stressful, that's the wrong word. But they really concentrate incredibly hard, because, obviously, they don't want to make a mistake. If they make a mistake, they have to give it back to the globe makers who will have to take a panel off and then that will have to reapplied.

Peter:
And equally there's no ... They don't want to make a mistake. It's obviously, it's a difficult thing to do. But when you come to the studio it's quite amazing that there are so many people so focused on what they're doing, not talking, not making any sounds. Sometimes some of them have headphones on with podcasts or things going on. But on the whole, it's a very quiet, highly concentrated environment. I mean I often say, "If I'd concentrated this hard when I was at school, I actually would have got decent exam results."

Daniel:
I have to say that's one of the things I did notice in the few videos that I've seen of your workshop. It's actually surprising even just calling it a workshop that there's no machines in there. There's no computers, there's no screens. And there's gores hanging down from the ceiling and it looks like a real artist's studio.

Peter:
I mean, it is an artist's studio. There are screens there. We do, we kind of hide them behind plants and things. And obviously, we have a full wood workshop downstairs, but that's kind of ... Luckily there's quite a thick wall between the noisy machines that are going on behind there. But it's still a creative, artistic studio. It's not like a big factory churning out a ton of things. Each item is made one at a time. There's no real economies of scale in anything we're doing. Everything is bespoke. Everything is done one at a time. There's no time where you really think, "Oh, hey, if I do ten of these at once it will save me time," because it's all one offs. Which is a wonderful thing and we're lucky to be in this situation.

Daniel:
Yeah it really is a wonderful thing. And it's actually quite different when you think of the way the rest of the world is going where it's more, "Hurry up. How can we do this faster? How can we do it better? How can we be more efficient? How can we digitize things?" And, like I say, if you get back to this workshop, the pictures and videos I've seen of it, it's quite incredible. No machines stamping huge volumes of things. It looks like a whole bunch of artists working patiently on a craft.

Peter:
Absolutely. But I mean, I'll take you up on that though. I think that at the moment, there's a real desire for more things like this. There are many things now that ... People are just getting more into the construction of things and how things are made and what they have in their house. They're not buying in the way they did in the kind of naughties where they would be buying tons of stuff and just filling their rooms with junk. Maybe that sounds wrong. Maybe filling their rooms with things that really don't mean that much to them. People, I think, are being more picky about what they want to decorate their homes with, what they want to see on a daily basis. And that, obviously, is helping us as a company.

Daniel:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, too, there will always be a certain piece of the market that's looking for a high end product, and looking for a story as well and looking for a craft an art. So definitely, yeah. And I'm really pleased to hear that you're experiencing that, that there are people out there and that they are keeping this industry alive.

Peter:
Yeah. I mean it's great. It was wonderful for me, in a way, to be able to help get this industry back on track. Because in globe making, there are the companies in several other countries making globes, but just no one was really taking it to the correct level. They've been making fully printed, with all the colors printed globes and they just, they sit awkwardly in the environment they're in. You'd see them in people's houses, you'd see them in shops, and you would kind of look at it, quite a nicely constructed base that the globe is sitting in and then this really brightly colored thing in the middle. And it's been ... It's so nice that we are able to do such an ... I'm so lucky that we are able to making such an amazing product, and one that ... I have people who find us and they tell me they've been hunting decades for a globe.

Daniel:
That's incredible. That really is incredible. Speaking of which, so your customers, where do they come from? Is it a certain country you ship most of your globes too? Or can you see that there's more activity or traffic from certain markets?

Peter:
I guess we create our own PR and publicity. We don't advertise as such. We get PR in different media. And that, to an extent, drives our ... well, not to an extent. That drives our sales. I guess on the whole our biggest country is the US, but we sell them all over the world. We've sold them to ... I should actually know how many countries we've sold them to, and this will remind me to go to work and actually calculate. But we've sent them to Tahiti, we've sent them to pretty much every ... Well, we've sent them to every South American country, we've sent them to most Asian countries. We're quite think on the ground in Africa I guess, but we have one of our largest globes, the Churchill globe, in Kenya. And yeah, we really sell them everywhere.

Daniel:
So we've talked a little bit about the globe making process and who buys them and the kind of market and industry that you're in. Could you give us an idea of ... Not give us an idea. But where do you get your data from? And how's that changed over time? If I look at, I'm thinking specifically about border disputes, for example, around China would be a great one. So when someone orders a globe, if they come from one of these areas ... Or, do they consider that? Do they go on and say, "I would like the border to look like this?" Or do you even have borders on your globes?

Peter:
Yeah, no. We do have borders. This is a wonderful minefield of things going on here. I had a fantastic conversation with someone from the United Nations a few years ago who looked at my globe and said, "This isn't how we do things." And I then spun the globe to Taiwan and looked at them and said, "So what is this little island here?" And obviously the UN doesn't recognize Taiwan even though Taiwan is a fully functioning state, fully functioning in every way. It's an independent country. But we actually recognize each country as that country wants to be recognized because every country has their own version of the world. It just highlights, today, with things going on in Ukraine, how most of the world don't recognize that Crimea is within Russia, but for Russians, I guess it was taken or it was given away stupidly after the war. And now that it's been annexed and back in Russia, it's one of those things that's important, that is kept within Russia, or that's denoted within Russian borders.

Peter:
And so we can, for disputed borders, that's kind of an easy sit on the fence situation. There's a disputed border in ... There are so many disputed borders you wouldn't actually, probably, know about. There are many out there, but there's quite an interesting one between India and Pakistan. And the first globe we sent out to India actually got returned because we had the border noted as a disputed border. And indeed I can do six months in prison for having incorrect information on a globe going to India.

Peter:
So people do ask for things to be denoted differently. But equally, we kind of, when we're selling into certain markets, we change the globe so that we know we're not offending customs and regulations in that country. 'Cause it's obviously not in our interest to send globes out that get returned. Yeah, and customs ... Trust me. Customs don't use white gloves when they handle anything. They tend to use machine tools, hammers, and anything possible that will destroy whatever they are looking at.

Daniel:
After all that work and then somebody rips into it with a hammer. That'd be heart breaking.

Peter:
We're ... In a way, we're kind of our own worst enemies. One of the things we do is that we will balance a globe so that when it spins it comes to a gentle halt. It doesn't go backwards and forwards. And to do that, the easiest way is to use lead weights on the inside of the globe. And this has been going on for decades. It's a traditional thing. They used to actually use lead shot. We actually use lumps of lead which are fixed to the inside of the globe. But, evidently, some customs take an X-ray and wonder what it is. And rather than using a Geiger counter to tell that it's not anything naughty, they just use a hammer.

Peter:
But having said that, they kind of do know, we are ... When we ship to the US, customs can do a quick search and they can see that we are an established company and that ... we come up on their list. So they don't think that we're a random fly by night company who might be doing something strange.

Daniel:
I think if we get back to that problem with the border disputes, I think that ... that idea that maps can just be art is perhaps a little bit naïve. I see maps ... We have a small company ourselves, and we make maps. And I see them as art. And I often say to people, "We're not trying to make a political statement here." But I think anytime you're denoting a border or outlining a country in a certain way, you're always making a political statement. And it's very difficult. It can be incredibly difficult. And the emotions on both sides, or the different parties involved is ... Yeah, it's not something you should take too lightly.

Peter:
No, absolutely. And when we ... So there are ways of highlighting different seas, for instance, that can get you in trouble. We have a quite a high profile Instagram account. And sometimes when we take an image ... I think it's ... I haven't actually got it exactly to hand, but I think it's the East China Sea or the Sea of Japan, and perhaps even check it up. But the South Koreans call it the Korean Sea, I think. And then the Japanese call it the Japanese Sea. I can't quite remember now. I'll let you know later. But when we do that, we get a fierce volley of emails saying, "This globe is wrong, this globe is wrong. You must change this." And it is, it's quite an emotive thing. But it's ... No globe is wrong. It's kind of, every country views political ... denotation of the globe differently. Every country has different countries it recognizes. And sometimes a country like Swaziland, recently the king changed the name to Eswatini.

Peter:
Some countries are recognizing that and some aren't. And so we try and be very careful when ... For instance, we will now put Eswatini, but in brackets, we will put Swaziland so that people will know. But coming back to your borders question, the scale of a globe means that for borders, it's ... Yes, we can get it wrong if we denote them incorrectly as a disputed border rather than a fixed border or something like that. But on the whole, borders don't really change to an extent that they will make a difference on a globe. There's not huge things going on. There aren't huge shifts in borders happening. Country names, yes, occasionally. But borders, per se, that's not going on dramatically. And even when it does, finding that information and finding numerous bits of information where things are changing, it's a challenging thing. And it's a fun thing to try and keep on top of because things change without any great fanfare, and all of a sudden your map is out of date.

Peter:
If you go into any map store or globe store in London, I could find so many errors. Because it's one of those things. Apart from the fact that they could be just merely outdated, but just keeping up to date with changes that are going on the world. Mountain's names changing. States in India change all the time and then new states appear in India and things like that. It's quite a challenge.

Daniel:
So how do you keep up to date with all that? I mean, I'm assuming it's not just sitting down, reading the local newspaper once a week and trying to figure out what's changed.

Peter:
Well there isn't any international body that really comes to our rescue. So I'm afraid it is keeping our noses to the ground and seeing what is going on in the world. I mean I ... Things do get noticed the whole time and we are constantly updating our cartography anyway. So we are constantly checking things. But when we know something is on the radar, we will keep our ears to the ground to make sure we know that's happening. But there isn't ... There will be country specific bodies that do things, but they don't really put their information out there. It often is just through reading websites or reading news websites to see geographical changes.

Peter:
It's one of those things that some news organizations actually kind of have departments, I guess, that see that as valuable news. Certainly some of the UK newspapers, you can often find territorial disputes even though they evidently don't have a department within the newspaper that has that as it's [inaudible 00:29:27] but it's something that their aware of. But I mean we could never employ enough people to constantly be going out there and finding changes. The information actually gets into the public domain relatively quickly. And in a way, it is relatively visible when that happens. When things change, usually a country wants to announce-

Daniel:
Yeah, yeah. But I guess it's just a matter of hearing that announcement. I guess this is also probably not a side of globe making that people would really think about too much. I mean, when I look at your website, for example, as I said before, I see a whole bunch of artists and craftspeople standing around making these beautiful objects. And it looks like a test of skill and patience, and not so much a test of your political understanding. But from what I understand from what you're saying, that is very much a part of it.

Peter:
No, that absolutely is. That, to me, that's one of the most important roles that I have in the company. I obviously have a team of talented but on the whole young artists who probably are not keeping up with current affairs and things like that. That's something that I enjoy doing anyway, but it's something that I have to do as part of the company. That's really important.

Daniel:
Definitely. Are there any globes or projects that you've worked on that really stand out for you? That this was something special, maybe in the design or because someone ordered it for a certain celebration or a situation or a certain location? Is there anything that really stands out?

Peter:
I mean, there are so many interesting ones we work with. For our bases, we work with some amazing people. I work with the chief engineer for Aston Martin heritage cars to create aluminum bases. But I think one of the nicest ones ... I mean, it's always amazing making a Churchill globe. But one of the best ones was a globe we made for a German gentleman, and his daughter had actually commissioned it. And they had gone back though six decades of his life, so they had something representing his life from 1948 up until 2017. And then I went over to Germany and kind of presented it to him. And it was just, it was such a wonderful ... I mean, I don't really ... Hold on. I can talk about it, in terms of who it's going to, but I don't think that's important.

Peter:
But, ultimately, he's lead an amazing life and has an incredible company in Germany. But it was made to go into a museum, but he kind of fell in love with it, so much so that it's now in his office. And he apparently is in awe of it and loves it. For me, making our globes and seeing what they look like at the end and then delivering them to each customer and then probably 80% or more customers sending us back a picture of their globe in situ, that's the best thing about what we do. And that beats doing any special art project, or we've made egg shaped globes for a charity before. Which is wonderful, and that has made tens of thousands for charity. But it's the fact that when we really make people smile when they receive their globe.

Peter:
I'd never bought anything before in my life where I'd written back to the company after I'd received the item and said, "Thank you very much, this is amazing. Here's a photo of me wearing it or whatever in situ." I've never, ever done that. And we have so many photos of globes all over the world. We had one a couple of days ago, the globe is on the 35th floor overlooking Central Park in situ, and it's kind of, it's pretty amazing that people are so taken with what they received, that they're so happy to do that.

Daniel:
So if you could put your finger on the one thing that makes the difference, is that even possible? 'Cause I'm thinking that there's lots of other globes out there. I mean, you could go to Amazon if you want and buy a globe. Now, I'm not in any way comparing that kind of product to what you make, but I'm just wondering, if you had to say, "Okay, this is the thing that makes the difference." Is it the time that goes into it? Is it the effort? Is it the detail of it? Is it the fact that, in the case of this German gentleman, that you went to his house and said, "Here. We made this for you."?

Peter:
I think it's the love that has gone into it. But I think it's also the fact that so many of our customers are involved in the making from the beginning because they are adding detail to the map. They're adding their little town. I don't know where you're from, but if you add your local little town onto the map and you suddenly see this on the globe, it, on the one hand, looks incongruous, but on the other hand it looks amazing having a little village just outside London or something that's added to the map.

Peter:
And because people are so involved in the whole project. They are part of it. They are, ultimately, one of the cogs in the wheel that makes the finished product. And so I think that's the difference. Everything else, I guess every other globe out there, is finished and you just buy an end product. This is so personal to people, and I think that's probably the thing that makes it so special.

Daniel:
Yeah, to be honest I can't really think ... I'm sitting here trying to think of another product or item or service that you buy over such a long time period. Like, six months, I think you said six months for one of the smaller globes and I'm assuming significantly longer for a big Churchill one. But I can't quite think of a product or service that you're so involved in and that you're a part of all the way through the process like that.

Peter:
No, I [inaudible 00:36:41]. Whenever I say that, I'm always thinking, in the back of my mind, "There must be another product. There must be another product." And there are, I'm sure. I just, I'm the same. I kind of ... There aren't really that many. I mean, even, you could, I suppose, if you think of a suit, when you're getting a suit made by a tailor and that's all fitted to you and things. But it's not quite the same, because ultimately a blue pinstripe suit with three extra pockets is a blue pinstripe suit with three extra pockets. It's not really ... It doesn't have things to do with you and things to do with only you. That's the wonderful thing about this. A globe, when it arrives, is ... People are buying them and they're already deciding who they're going to give it to later on. I can't remember the word you use. But no, they're already deciding who they can gift it to out of their children.

Peter:
And they're so invested in it because it's, in a way, I suppose it kind of becomes a legacy for people. It's something they can gift on that's really never gonna be given away. Why would you give away a globe that is both personal to you but equally, if your mother or father gives you a globe and it has details about your family and things on, that's a wonderful thing to be able to pass down through generations.

Daniel:
Yeah. And like I keep saying, it's completely unique. So why would you give it away? And I think too there's something [inaudible 00:38:36] or there's something very special about maps. There's something special about that perspective. There's something special about seeing your place in the world and seeing where you come from. And in the case of a globe, the world as a whole and seeing how things fit together and how they relate. So yeah, I think it must be an incredible gift to get something like this.

Peter:
Yeah. And beyond the individual-ness and the personalization of it, it is a thing that constantly makes you think about things. We're bombarded with news stories about global warming, and you have a globe in your house. And it kind of, it really does make you think about it. But equally, going on holiday, when you're going on holiday, you might map the route that the plane is gonna go or see the shortest route. Two slightly juxtaposed stories, but it does ... It comes into daily life so often. It's such an interesting thing because you're constantly ... If you listen to any news broadcasters, so often a reference to, even if it's just a country where things are happening, there's a reference to a globe somewhere in there.

Daniel:
I'd like to pose another question here. Now, there's a movement in the world at the moment, and I'm sure if you've been spending any time on Instagram or the other social media channels and been posting anything to do with cartography or geography, you will have heard about it. And it's this idea that the world is flat. You work with globes, you make beautiful custom globes. How would you respond to a person who supports this idea?

Peter:
On the whole, I would probably respond in a way that you won't want to necessarily broadcast. I kind of think, just to hear [inaudible 00:40:41] physics or I don't know. It's so blatantly obvious that it's not. That ... I can't really imagine having a conversation with someone who takes it seriously. I guess it's fun to always have interesting conversations.

Daniel:
I think maybe you're a bit like me. You support the idea of playing devil's advocate sometimes and thinking critically about things and theories, but I think for that one there, I have a really hard time with it, I have to admit. And I think it's an interesting thought experiment, but nothing more for me. What does the future look like for you and your company? Where are you going? What are you most excited about?

Peter:
I mean, we're constantly doing new products, new ranges. Trying out different ways of presenting the globe. And that's something that constantly drives us on. We're looking at going old school and starting to make a series of globes using traditional printing methodology where we're using copper plates. We're constantly looking for new things to do. But I think, for me, it's getting the company to a level where it is a good level where it can maintain itself. I mean, we have a long order book, but that's obviously something that has to be maintained. And so that's important, and making sure that it has solid foundations.

Peter:
Beyond that, I'm sure in a few years time, we will no doubt put our minds to perhaps doing other things. But I think it's such an interesting thing we're doing, and it throws up so many challenges every single day. At the moment, we're making a new sized globe, quite a large globe, 65 centimeters, which sits in between two that we do. And that is bringing up new challenges every day that we are trying to resolve. And when you're constantly challenged at work, you don't need to be looking for the next big thing. You actually, you have an amazing thing that you're trying to work out every single day. And that's, I think, for me certainly, that's what makes this job so interesting, the fact that it just ... I can't turn up at work half hearted and at 30% and think the day is going to run smoothly. I have to be on my A game every single day, as does everyone else.

Peter:
And it's ... both a fantastic environment to work in, but it's also a really challenging environment. And that's what keeps it interesting. And so, there isn't like a something inside me looking for the next best thing. As far as I'm concerned, I'm doing the next best thing.

Daniel:
That sounds great. That sounds like it's the way it should be and it's sounds like, that this work environment, this thing that you're doing, is going to continue providing enough challenges for years to come. Peter, we're slowly but surely coming to the end of our time together. I really want to thank you for taking the time to talk to me, and talk to us, and for telling us about your business and what you're up to, and these beautiful works of art, these beautiful globes that you make. Where can people go to learn more about you?

Peter:
On the whole, if they just go to our website, which is www.bellerby, B, E, double L, E, R, B, Y, and Co, all written andco.com. They can check out our website, or they can just type, "bespoke globes," into Google and I think we come up one to ten. Or, if they would like to see them in person, there are some available certainly in London and they can be seen in Harold's. But other than that, you have to know one of the, I think it's about 1,800 people around the world who have one. Which is a ... That also is a pretty cool thing. There are not yet 2,000 globes out there. And so you'll never run into one.

Daniel:
Okay. I'll make sure to supply all those links and further information in the show notes so people can check it out if they're interested. Peter, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Peter:
My pleasure. I hope I've made some sense in there.

Daniel:
Thank you very much for listening to another episode of the MapScaping podcast, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Peter as much as I enjoyed making it. As always, a complete transcript of these podcasts are available at MapScaping.com/blog/podcast and we would highly appreciate any feedback you have for us. So please contact us in all of the ways, the social media channels, we're there, MapScaping.com. Thank you, talk to you soon.